Kylie Joiner

Special Counsel, Marshall + Dent + Wilmoth

Kylie is currently special counsel to the entertainment law team at Marshall + Dent + Wilmoth. She is known to represent some of Australia’s most recognised TV-personalities and has provided legal services to producers in the production of films including ‘Red Dog: True Blue’ and ‘Ride like a Girl’. Keep on reading to find out more about Kylie’s experiences!

INTERVIEW

Could you briefly introduce yourself?

I was admitted in 2011 and have been practising as a lawyer now for nearly 10 years.  I have been lucky enough to practise exclusively within the media and entertainment industry since admission, so did not follow the traditional graduate route of doing rotations amongst different areas. 

“Broadly speaking, entertainment law encompasses all facets of the entertainment industry – from music, to film and TV, to live theatrical productions, to fine arts and photography.”

How would you describe entertainment law to someone that doesn’t know anything about it?

Broadly speaking, entertainment law encompasses all facets of the entertainment industry – from music, to film and TV, to live theatrical productions, to fine arts and photography.  In practice, it’s a mix of intellectual property, commercial and contract law.

As a student, were you certain that entertainment law was the area that you wanted to practise in? If so, how did those aspirations originate? If not, what led you to practise entertainment law?

When I was a kid, I wanted to be a pop star! Of course, my aspirations of singing and dancing in an arena in front of millions of people never eventuated much further than in the mirror in the privacy of my room (a very big favour to mankind in hindsight).  

I thought that being a lawyer to pop stars and celebrities would be the next best thing.  I was lucky enough to secure an internship with a boutique entertainment law firm whose clients included some of Australia’s biggest musicians (Gotye, Hilltop Hoods, Missy Higgins).  I completed my PLT there and was offered a job as a graduate lawyer shortly after.  

After a few years, I wanted to expand my skillset so took up a job offer in the Media and Entertainment team at Marshalls Dent Wilmoth.  Our main practice is looking after the legal needs of film and television producers; as well as creative individuals and media and entertainment personalities.

“I thought that being a lawyer to pop stars and celebrities would be the next best thing”

Could you give us an overview of a day in your life as an entertainment lawyer at Marshall + Dent + Wilmoth Lawyers?

I’m a pretty experienced word processor now as a result of the hundreds of contracts I’ve drafted and reviewed as part of my career! I can’t say that any 2 days are exactly the same – as it really depends on the type of files that we’re working on.  

 If I’m working with a film or TV client on a project that is still in development, it’s a great deal of drafting, reviewing and negotiating contracts with federal and/or state government agencies, broadcasters / streaming platforms, and creative contributors involved in the project.   A large part of this involves knowing what to look out for in a contract (whether that’s negotiating an existing deal point, or including an important one that has been overlooked).

 If a project is leading up to production, this means that all of the various investors and financiers of a production have committed to funding, and it’s now time to get all of the contracts in order (much like a property settlement after you purchase a house) – these files are a lot more fast pace and you can be dealing with 10 or so different stakeholders who all have to get on the same page and agree to the same contracts. Cashflow for a production does not usually commence after all of the contracts have “closed”.  Imagine getting 10+ different parties to agree to, and be prepared to sign off on 30+ contracts.  Not an easy task!.  

 The financing projects come with more pressure (as you’re constantly aware, in the back of your mind, that cashflow is crucial by the time production begins), but is also very exhilarating when you bring everyone into agreement and you can “close”.   Aside from managing contracts, there is also a great deal of managing the various stakeholders.  

One of the greatest skills you can have as a financing lawyer  is knowing how to manage and provide solutions on various issues when 2 (or more) sides don’t see eye to eye.

“Aside from competence as a great technical lawyer, I think it’s also important to know the industry itself really well (whether this is familiarity with industrial agreements, or what the “norm” is).”  

What is the most fulfilling part about your job?

I love closing deals for a client, then watching it up on the big screen or on TV!  Whether that’s negotiating and finalising a deal for a television presenter or media personality with a major broadcaster, and then actually seeing them on TV, or closing a financing file and then watching the project come to life on screen. It’s also super fun when your name is included in the credits!

What is the most exciting project or memorable case you have worked on?

I’ve been privileged to have worked with some amazing clients. When LION (featuring Dev Patel and Nicole Kidman; produced by See-Saw Films) was nominated for an academy award, it was a pretty special moment knowing that I had, in a very small way, contributed to bringing that film to life. More recently, 2 projects that I helped close came in at #1 and #2 of the highest grossing films of Australia (The Dry, featuring Eric Bana; and Penguin Bloom, featuring Naomi Watts – both produced by Made Up Stories) so that was equally as exciting.

What skills do you need when working with clients within entertainment law?

Aside from competence as a great technical lawyer, I think it’s also important to know the industry itself really well (whether this is familiarity with industrial agreements, or what the “norm” is).  It also helps when you get along with your clients, and actually want to maintain a friendship outside of work (entertainment law is perhaps unique like that).

What university units would you recommend to students wanting to practise entertainment law in the future?

Intellectual Property Law and Contracts.  Media and Defamation can also be very useful if that is of interest – I think some universities now offer “Entertainment Law” as an elective as well (that didn’t exist when I was at uni).

Do you have any tips in relation to the extracurricular activities students should participate in to help them stand out when applying for entertainment law positions upon graduation?

Try to acquire as much industry experience as you can.  If you’re certain that you want to be an entertainment lawyer, it would be worth looking for part-time jobs in the industry itself (i.e. at a record label, distribution company, production company, government agency such as Screen Australia, Film Victoria etc).  They do not necessarily need to be legal jobs – but just being aware of how the industry works will become incredibly valuable when trying to set yourself apart from other candidates.